Interviews


Exclusive Daytrippin’ interview: Guitarist Laurence Juber talks about how he became a member of Paul McCartney’s other band, Wings, and his new instrumental tribute to The Beatles

by Marshall Terrill

[Paul McCartney and Laurence Juber in Scotland in 1978;
photo courtesy Laurence Juber]

Laurence Juber has no need to rely on his past, therefore, he isn’t afraid to revisit it every now and then.

Often considered most famous for playing lead guitar in Wings from 1978 to 1981, he has since had a distinguished career as a solo fingerstyle guitarist.

The two-time Grammy award-winning artist has developed a reputation as a world-class guitar virtuoso solo artist, composer and arranger, and released 15 critically acclaimed solo albums since Wings folded.  His latest, LJ Plays The Beatles Vol. 2 (Solid Air, 2010), released on August 10 is a solo acoustic guitar arrangement of 15 songs by John Lennon and Paul McCartney.  It is also the long-awaited sequel to LJ Plays the Beatles (Solid Air, 2000), which was voted one of Acoustic Guitar magazine’s top 10 all-time acoustic albums.

In this candid and definitive two-part interview, Juber discusses the influence of the Beatles on his life, his career as a studio musician in London, the making of Back to the Egg and how he earned his musical degree from ‘McCartney University.’

Daytrippin’: I heard a curious story about you that almost seemed too good to be true, and so I have to ask – the first week that “I Want to Hold Your Hand” was released in Britain, it was also the same week you first picked up a guitar…true or false?

Juber: That’s essentially true.  I had been wanting to pick up a guitar for some time, but there was a period in the summer of 1963 where Beatlemania came into full force in the UK.  As a result, you really couldn’t get away from the fact that everything was all about pop music, especially at such an impressionable age.  I really wanted to play the guitar, not specifically because of the Beatles, but because of The Shadows, who were Cliff Richard’s backing group and they performed all of these instrumental hits – that was just wonderful stuff.  Then at the same time it was the start of the James Bond films, which had great twangy guitar sounds, which also influenced me.

In England music lessons started in junior high, so that was right around the start of my musical journey.  My dad had wanted me to play the saxophone and at the time,  I didn’t want to play the sax, so I compromised and said I’d play the clarinet.  It turned out there weren’t enough clarinets to go around, so I got a guitar for my 11th birthday, which was in November of 1963.  “I Want to Hold Your Hand” came out about a week later.  So it wasn’t specifically the Beatles as much as it was the entire pop scene and all the energy that was going around at the time.

The Beatles were a significant part of the whole thing happening in music.  It was like jumping into a river and being carried along by the current because it was all going in that direction.  I went into my teen years being swept along in this amazing Renaissance that was happening in pop music in England at the time.

Daytrippin’: And so who are the other musical influences you had as a youth?

Juber: It’s an extremely long list, too long to detail here because I was listening to everything.  I was not only into rock ‘n’ roll but jazz and folk too.  By the time I had turned 13, people were paying me to play.  It was then I realized that this was something that I wanted to do for a living, but I also recognized that I had a certain kind of versatility.  I was interested in a lot of different styles of music.  I learned to how finger-pick Bob Dylan tunes, learned to play the Bossa Nova, taking jazz records and slowing them down from 33 1/3 to 16 so I could figure out what the guitar was doing.  There were also a lot of West Coast jazz and studio players like Barney Kessell and Howard Roberts, as well as the Belgian gypsy jazz guitarist Django Reinhardt, who was very popular in England.  There was also the English folk scene with people like Bert Jansch and Martin Carthy, who are still great folk singers, and finger-pickers.

I also had a band with a group of friends, and we’d play every Saturday night.  We were always buying the latest Beatles records, the Stones, the Who and we’d learn it, rehearse it, play it and that was our Saturday night thing. Then I got into Clapton, Beck, Page — the English blues-driven players.  There was also Radio Luxembourg, which played all the Top 40 tunes before the BBC got hip.  I guess they had to because of all the pirate radio stations.  They played all the big American hits as well as Motown, which of course, was great.  I’d listen at night, focus in on what the bass player was doing, what the drummer was doing, and really deconstruct the music.  I also started listening to orchestral music and became very analytical about how I listened to that too.  So, a lot of influences, way more than I could repeat.

Daytrippin’: I assume your parents must have been quite encouraging?

Juber: There was some encouragement up to a certain point.  Both of my parents grew up in London in World War II during the blitz and the evacuations so they never had much of an education.  My dad left school at 14 and my mom at 15.  They were encouraging to the point where they thought it was great I kept myself occupied with a hobby but they wanted to make sure that I had something to fall back on.  They had visions of me being a doctor or at the very least a pharmacist or accountant or something like that.  I told them at a very young age I intended to make my living as a guitar player, so they were supportive to a point.  I also didn’t grow up in a very musical household, so that level of nurture really came from inside.  I was very self-directed.

[Photo courtesy Laurence Juber]

Daytrippin’: After you graduated from London University with a Bachelor of Music in 1975, how did you start getting booked as a studio musician and where were some sessions/albums you played on pre-Wings?

Juber: My ambition in life was to become a studio musician, so after high school I took a year off, which is what they now call the “gap” year.  I was a pioneer of the gap year (laughs).  What I did was work professionally for that one year, and I was playing jazz and folk clubs and demo sessions, generally making myself available as a musician and paying dues in London.  I also joined the National Youth Jazz Orchestra, which was something of a training ground for studio musicians.  I then attended London University but I was still gigging, playing clubs and being the substitute guitarist for the West End production of Jesus Christ Superstar.  I was supporting myself with music and learning as much as I could, but more importantly, making those connections to be able to transition full-time into a studio musician when I graduated.  My reputation got around and I eventually was introduced to various record producers and arrangers.

One of the albums I played on was Alan Parson’s Tales of Mystery and Imagination.  I had no idea at the time what the session was for.  I found out from a magazine interview that Alan did 30 years later.  I played on the score for The Spy Who Love Me, which was a James Bond film.  I played on a cool record that Rosemary Clooney did in London.  I also worked with Shirley Bassey, John Williams and Jimmy Rafferty.  One of the first album sessions I did was for Cleo Laine, who is a great English jazz singer and the producer was George Martin.  Sessions for European artists too:  Charles Aznavour from France, Lucio Battiste from Italy.  A lot of stuff that didn’t necessarily make an impression on the US market.  I played on a lot of records for a French artist named Cerrone, who was the ‘other’ Euro disco king, sort of like Georgio Moroder.  Again, I had no idea how successful the releases were until many years later.  I was very busy in that period.

Daytrippin’: Tell us how you got the gig for Wings?

Juber: I was working in the house band for “The David Essex Show” and Denny Laine was as guest on the show.  Denny played “Go Now” and liked how I played the solo. We bonded musically and that was it.  About six months later I got a call from Paul’s office MPL – ironically I was playing a session at Abbey Road Studios 2.  They said, “Denny wants to know if you can come jam on Monday, and, oh by the way Paul and Linda will be there…”

In the period between when I first met Denny and the audition, I actually ran into all of them at Air Studios.  I was early for a session and they were in there mixing the soundtrack for “Oriental Nightfish,” Linda’s tune for an animated film.  They were running late and invited me in to see what was going on, so I got to meet everybody and hang out.  Jimmy McCullough was already out of the band at that point, but it really wasn’t on my radar that they were looking for a guitar player.  I do remember that around that time I was working on a TV show in Manchester, which was a weekly pop show and it was the first time that I had seen the video for “With a Little Luck.”  It was the first thing where Steve Holly was visible and I remember someone saying, “That’s the new Wings drummer and I hear they’re looking for a guitarist.”  Then I got this call from out of the blue.

Daytrippin’: From what I understand, the audition process was very informal, jamming and playing a bunch of rock (“Johnny B. Goode”) and reggae songs, and hanging out.

Juber: Very much so.  I really didn’t know much of the Wings’ repertoire and I had to borrow a bunch of albums from my brother the previous weekend.  I tend to do well at cold auditions and I was lucky.  Really, I was quite busy with my session work and I had a big choice to make: do I continue along with my career, that I had been working on since I was a teenager or do I join Wings?  I thought about it for a nanosecond.  It seemed like one of those gigs that you shouldn’t turn down and I’m glad I didn’t, because I learned so much from that experience.

Daytrippin’: What was your first official gig for Wings?

Juber: The first official gig was when we recorded a song at RAK Studios in London called “Same Time Next Year” and I believe that was in May 1978. (Editor’s note: Curiously, the song was released on the final credits of the 1985 Ann-Margret film, Twice in a Lifetime) I had another gig playing on a variety show, so I couldn’t be at the session for the string overdubs.  Then we went up to Scotland (at McCartney’s farm) getting to know each other.  During that period is when we filmed the video for “I’ve Had Enough” (the second single from London Town).

Daytrippin’: I always thought it was strange that you had to mimic a guitar part that Jimmy McCullough recorded.  Did it seem strange to you?

Juber: It wasn’t strange at all.  That’s kind of par for the course as a musician because you often find yourself playing someone else’s part, especially if it’s a famous song.  To be honest, I knew I was stepping into Jimmy McCullough’s shoes and it was a perfectly reasonable transition. I really didn’t give it much thought, but what was interesting was the filming of the video.  We shot it all night and it was a one-camera shoot with film that was transferred to video.  I had never done a video before because I had only done live TV shows up to that point.

Here’s a funny story:  years later I played a guitar part for Eric Carmen on a song called “Make Me Lose Control”, which became a hit.  As the record was about to come out, I got a call from a company who wanted me to be in the video.  Well, they had no idea I had played on the record and thought I would be mimicking someone else’s performance.  So I got to mimic my own.

Daytrippin’: Back to the Egg was a big concept, had a big sound and certainly was an ambitious undertaking (i.e. Rockestra, videos, touring, promotion).  Do you think that was tied to the fact that McCartney had just signed a new multi-million dollar contract for Columbia or that he had felt it was time to do something bigger with Wings?

Juber: There was no perception in the doing of it that it was ‘bigger’ than normal.  I think what happened with that album, and the title was reflective of the fact, was that Paul had been heading in a softer direction and this was a change.  After Wings Over America, he recorded “Mull of Kintyre” and “With A Little Luck” and the London Town sessions.  There wasn’t really as much of a rock component to those sessions.  “I’ve Had Enough” was about as heavy as things got at that point.  Steve Holly was a heavier and more rocking drummer than Joe English, which is not a jab at Joe, it was just a matter of styles.  Steve had more of a British backbeat.

Producer Chris Thomas (Pink Floyd, Elton John, Roxy Music, INXS) had already been brought on board to co-produce the record.  If you look at Chris’ timeline, he did Back to the Egg between the Sex Pistols and The Pretenders.  He tends to raise the concept level of his projects and is a Beatle insider going back to the White Album.  Phil McDonald engineered, who was one of the Abbey Road-era people too.  We knew from the get-go that it was going to be a more basic vibe.  There’s certainly a significant rock element to that album especially in the “Rockestra” bits, and there’s also, which was typical in the 1970s English rock scene, a folk element.  I mean, you saw that a lot with Led Zeppelin and Jethro Tull, but of course, Paul articulates it in his own way.  So yes, it was going to be a rock-flavored album, but it was still just an eclectic bunch of songs.

There was a richness to the Columbia record deal that had given Paul a substantial publishing catalog and the label certainly had ambitions at the time.  It was overseen by  Walter Yentikoff, Bruce Lundvall, Don Devito, Paul Atkinson and other people who were quite legendary figures in the record business.  Certainly there was an expectation that putting Paul McCartney on your record label would have a certain kind of size to it, but by the time it was released in June 1979 the economy was not doing that great and the record business hit the wall.  All of the labels had gotten it into their heads that somehow every album that was released should do better than Fleetwood Mac’s Rumors or Saturday Night Fever.  That was a phase and sales went back to normal, relatively speaking.  Just the ebb and flow of things.  Nevertheless, Back to the Egg did quite well and could have done even better had he put “Goodnight Tonight” on the album.

Daytrippin’: Agreed.  I’ve always felt that was a major mistake on his part and the difference between going platinum and triple platinum had he included “Goodnight Tonight” (a Top 5 hit in America) and “Daytime Nightime Suffering” on the album.

Juber: Absolutely, it would have made a  significant difference.  But that goes back to the Beatles and the mentality about singles and albums.  The Beatles deal with EMI was two albums a year and and four singles, A and B sides.  So, with very few exceptions, in the UK you didn’t get the singles on the albums.  But we had talked about it…he said, “They want to do this but I’d rather give more value for money…”  So it didn’t get put on the album.

Daytrippin’: And the same thing happened again with “Coming Up,” which Paul was later forced to put on McCartney II as a 7-inch single.

Juber: That was interesting, too, because what happened with Back to the Egg, and continued through the UK tour was that we kind of forged ourselves as a rock band.  You can hear it on the Last Flight CD (a bootleg CD from their last live show) from Glasgow, Scotland, and the released live version of “Coming Up” came from that show.  There was a dichotomy going on where we were a tight rock band and Paul had just done the solo album McCartney II, which was kind of quirky and a bit left-field.  And quite truthfully, Columbia didn’t know how to market Paul’s music like Capitol did. But they did take notice when US rock radio started playing the live B-side of the single and it went to No. 1 for three  weeks in the Summer of 1980.  Columbia were obliged to add the 7-inch single to the McCartney II album as people were expecting the single to be on there.  Paul’s video was cool though.

We did the UK tour with the Japanese tour lined up right behind it, and the intention to tour the US in the summer of 1980.  So when you listen to the live stuff, there’s this rock band, a certain kind of heaviness that evolved out of the Back to the Egg sessions.  The problem was that where Paul was going in terms of his writing was a different direction, which ultimately turned out to be Tug of War and Pipes of Peace.  It was a body of material that wasn’t as well suited to a rock band, and neither of those are rock albums.  Tunes like “Ballroom Dancing” and “Average Person” are coming from a different place.  It’s more of a mature sound and it’s an artist who is settling down into a true solo career, who has his kids settled in school and has moved out of London.  After John Lennon died, which had to play some role in all of this, Paul didn’t tour again until 1989.

Daytrippin’: So Wings had actually rehearsed the material for the Tug of War sessions?

Juber: Yes, but most of those sessions were unproductive because we were working on songs that were more mature and not reflective of Wings.  We had evolved a band identity and this was feeling more like a Macca solo project; I would have been happier developing the tunes in the studio rather than rehearsals.  It was a step back in a way for me, because, working within the band context, Paul gave me a great deal of latitude on Back to the Egg.  There I’d offer up an idea and he’d either nod or he’d kind of raise an eyebrow and then I’d tweak it.  I remember very specifically when we were mixing “After the Ball,” I’d played an acoustic slide part and sat there just thinking, “I’d like to get my hand on that fader.”  I’d never been an engineer at that point and Paul noticed my discomfort and said, “Laurence, you run that fader.”  Not only did he accept my contribution but encouraged me to put it to the forefront.

Daytrippin’: Your personality certainly shows on Back to the Egg, which is interesting given your versatility and adaptability.

Juber: It’s interesting because at the time I was being my chameleon self as a studio player.  In the course of time, and this is something you don’t recognize at the time, I can listen back and say with some objectivity, “Hey, I had a sound and style back then.”

Daytrippin’: And it was a nice fit in that particular incarnation of the band – each of you had roles within the band and you not only played them perfectly, but there was room enough for everyone to shine and let your personality show through.

Juber: I think so, certainly in the musical sense.  Obviously there were other dynamics going on within the band in terms of where Paul and Linda were at in their lives, what was going on with Denny in his life, the more personality-driven aspects of the band.

Daytrippin’: You’ve stated before that watching Paul in the studio was an eye-opening experience because you were able to see him as a composer and how he fleshed out songs.  So with that said, did he come into the studio with the finished song in his head and you just laid down the tracks, or was it a situation that he fleshed them out with your help?

Juber: A lot of the time it was a finished song, but not always.  In the case of “Old Siam, Sir,” we were jamming one day and Steve Holly was playing keyboards and had this chord sequence.  I’m not sure if Paul was playing drums or if it was Linda because we’d trade off in a jamming situation, but what ended up happening was that ended up  in the instrumental section of the song.  I always felt that Steve should have received some sort of nod for that.  Unfortunately, that’s the nature of the process in that you don’t always get full credit for what you contribute as a musician, especially as the song-writing is traditionally words and melody, not chords, licks and grooves.  If you could copyright a rhythm, Bo Diddley would have been very happy.

Daytrippin’: But was there a time when you did see Paul flesh out a song that was half-finished or not a full idea?

Juber: Yes, Denny had written two incomplete songs and Paul suggested he merge the two, and that turned out to be “Again and Again and Again.”  That was Paul kind of wearing his producer hat at the time, but to the best of my recollection, most of the songs he brought in for Back to the Egg were complete to the extent where there might be a minor change to a lyric, but the song itself was pretty much there.

“Getting Closer” and the unreleased song “Cage” were off of demos, the latter being one that Paul and Denny did together.  There were times when there was a demo aspect to the sessions, and in some cases we created demos to see how the tune was shaping up.  We did a version of “Love Awake” that wasn’t a final version, as well as a demo of “Rockestra Theme” with just Wings so that everybody else could hear before the big session.  Typically the song was there, but in terms of production, getting the sound and arrangements right, that mostly took place in the studio.  I remember “Daytime Nightime Suffering”, which he composed over the weekend and came in with that on a Monday morning and we went right to work on it.  Paul was always very concise with his writing and was usually complete by the time we came to record it.  So the fleshing out was always on the production end of things, and occasionally we’d hear something that he was working on and then the next time he played it you could hear the progression. “Ebony and Ivory” comes to mind.

Daytrippin’: The group recorded “Back to the Egg” in several different places – McCartney’s farm in Scotland; Lympne Castle in Kent and Replica and EMI Studios in London.  In your opinion, did your surroundings have any influence on how you played or recorded a song?

Juber: I certainly think the surroundings impacted the sound of the record.  For example, we were recording “We’re Open Tonight” at Lympne Castle and I was sitting in the middle of a spiral staircase in a 13th Century castle with a 12-string acoustic guitar.  There’s certainly something to be said for the ambient aspect of your surroundings.  Being on the farm in Scotland definitely added to the rawness of “Spin It On” “Old Siam, Sir” and “To You”.

Daytrippin’: Wouldn’t it be fair to say that Back to the Egg is a British-sounding album?

Juber: It is very British. Other than the Fender, Gibson and Martin guitars, there’s nothing American about the sound of it and some of that is purely technical.  Amplifiers sound different at 50 cycles than they do at 60 cycles.  Just the AC power makes a difference to the sound of the equipment, the way the record was produced, the way the drums were miked, was more English than American; the players were English.  Look at Ram…it sounds so much like a New York album.  It was recorded in there and the players were all from the area, and there’s kind of a New York energy to it.  Denny Seiwell shines on that record.

Conversely, we did a lot of stuff at Abbey Road, which is about as English as it gets. We created Replica Studio in the basement of Paul’s office Soho Square primarily for mixing, but we did some recording there too.  The track for “Daytime Nightime Suffering” was all recorded there.  The drums were placed in a room where the coffee machine was.  That’s where I also did the acoustic solo for “Goodnight Tonight.”  It’s a different kind of vibe.

Daytrippin’: Back to the Egg was not only a big and powerful album, but it was eclectic.  The range of songs from full on rockers (“Rockestra Theme”; “Spin it On”; “So Glad to See You Here; “Old Siam, Sir”) to mid-tempo (“Arrow Through Me”; “Again  and Again and Again”) to ballads (“Winter Rose/Love Awake”) to original standards (“Baby’s Request”) to instrumentals (“Reception” and “Rockestra Theme”).  I recall seeing a Brian Wilson interview on television saying how much fun and wild Wings were because he never knew what to expect.

Juber: I had no idea he said that…that’s great because, if anyone is equally eclectic to Paul in terms of the production process, it’s Brian Wilson.  And, of course, Brian was revered in England.  Pet Sounds was not a huge hit in America but it was the Sergeant Pepper precursor in England.  I’d have to say Paul was the most eclectic artist I’ve ever worked with.  It’s in his nature.  This goes back to the Beatles.  They were a very eclectic band.  How many bands can you look at and say this was an incredible live rock ‘n’ roll band, before they ever made a record!  They were also an incredible R & B band…look at their R & B influences, especially John.  “All I’ve Got to Do” is proto-Al Green.  Take that song and look at it, it’s in that Smokey Robinson kind of area.  In fact, it was one of the songs I did for LJ Plays the Beatles Vol. 2.  It was so cool to do because it had such an immediate vibe about it.  Their version of the Shirelles “Baby, It’s You” is as good, if not better than the original version.  Fantastic R & B group, but you add that to the fact they were the most phenomenal pop group and the greatest bunch of studio musicians.  What they did in the studio as musicians was amazing, beyond the obvious progression as recording artists and songwriters.

It really hit home when I listened to Let It Be…Naked a few years back and what was going on in terms of the guitar parts.  Quite often John and George would really work out these cool two-guitar parts – “And Your Bird Can Sing” for example – sometimes you don’t even realize that it’s two guitars, but they were very much into that.  Paul was always eclectic because he was so versatile.  I believe Back to the Egg exemplifies a rock album, a folk album, a pop album, and certainly less geared to an American consciousness by comparison let’s say to Venus and Mars.  It was also a blessing and a curse.  At the time, that eclecticism wasn’t appreciated.  It was a two-star album in 1979 and it’s a four-star album in 2010.  As time has gone on, I think people have come to re-evaluate it in terms of Paul’s body of work and what was going on at the time in the music scene.

When you deconstruct the music, for example “Arrow Through Me”,  harmonically it is almost like Duke Ellington could have had written it.  I think “Again and Again and Again” was one of Denny’s more immediate and interesting contributions…

Daytrippin’: And speaking of Denny, I know it’s a rather obvious thing to say, but in doing my research for this interview, including watching a lot of videos, it really hit home for me that Denny was quite visible and a major presence in this band.  I know there are reports from him that he felt like a sideman at times, but his face was out there front and center.

Juber: Absolutely.  There is no question that Wings as a core group is the Paul, Linda and Denny ensemble.  This is where it carries over into getting Wings into the Rock and Roll Hall of Fame.  Wings was not just Paul McCartney post-Beatles.  Wings was Paul McCartney’s group post Beatles, if that makes sense.  If you go see Paul now and when he does a Wings song in his set, it’s great but there is something missing.  You’re not hearing Linda’s voice; you’re not hearing Denny’s voice; you’re not getting the qualities that they brought to Paul’s work.  It was a tempering.  I think Paul recognized that he needed a foil, without John being around.  Obviously, no one could fill in for John Lennon but Denny has his own eclecticism with his gypsy/folk sensibilities with an R & B voice and rock guitar prowess.  And Linda was kinda the glue.  Things just worked better with Linda there in the room because she was Paul’s soulmate and the female balancing part of his creative energy.  There was a dynamic that happened and, as much as Paul will perform a Wings song and you tap your foot and sing along with it and think, “What a great song,”  it doesn’t sound like Wings.  I do appreciate the fact that he plays some of those tunes though.

Daytrippin’: I’ve always felt that he personally never gave Wings enough credit despite the fact they had 14 Top Ten hits in America (six of those going to No. 1) and eight Top Ten albums (five of those at No. 1).  Today they’d be considered a supergroup.

Juber: Well, Wings was a supergroup.  I remember listening to Kasey Casem’s American Top 40 on the radio and they had the top groups of all-time. The Beatles were No. 1 and Wings was something like No. 3.  I had no idea we were quite that big.

Daytrippin’: I guess my point is that I get the feeling that Paul never viewed them as a supergroup…that they were just his little band and they were forced to live in the shadow of the Beatles.  Wings’ music was the soundtrack of many young lives in the 1970s, including mine, and I don’t believe he’s ever reconciled that part of his musical career.  Look at Wingspan (the CD) – he padded it out with solo material that simply didn’t belong on there.

Juber: Wings were simply above and beyond Paul’s solo career.  But I think Paul, in the nature of writing his own legacy, he’s certainly entitled to write his version of history or how he perceived it, but the fact is there are other factors in the scenario and other people have their opinions, too.  I too was a little disappointed with Wingspan (the documentary) that so much time was devoted to the breakup of the Beatles and not enough time was spent on Wings and the progression of the band and what it really represented from a musical point of view.  But that’s just water under the bridge.  For me, Wings was a great experience and anything that happens in the history books is sort of a bonus thing.  I got my Master’s degree from McCartney University and that’s good enough for me.

Click here to read part two of Laurence Juber’s Daytrippin’ interview

LJ Plays the Beatles Vol. 2 is available on www.laurencejuber.com and www.amazon.com.  Look for Laurence Juber at the Chicago Fest for Beatles Fans August 13-15 at the Hyatt Regency Hotel, or visit www.thefest.com

Marshall Terrill is the author of more than a dozen books.  His latest, Steve McQueen: A Tribute to the King of Cool (Dalton Watson Fine Books, 2010) is availble on www.daltonwatson.com and www.amazon.com.

For more Beatles news, follow us at http://www.twitter.com/beatleshistory


Paul McCartney wrote an exclusive essay called “Meat Free Monday” for the new Ether Books iPhone App released last week. The Ether iPhone app offers short stories, essays and poetry by new and established authors.

McCartney launched the Meat Free Monday campaign in 2009 with his daughters Stella and Mary McCartney to urge people to designate one meat free day a week to help save the environment.

Paul McCartney spoke about his recent essay in an interview with BBC Radio 4 on May 6. McCartney admits he doesn’t keep up to date with all the new technology.

“What was great was when you had one telephone under the stairs and when you weren’t in, you weren’t in and there wasn’t even an answering machine,” McCartney told the BBC. “That was great. Now nobody has any time.”

You can listen to audio from the interview here.

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David Bedford was born in 1965 and grew up in The Dingle, Liverpool, by the bottom of Madryn Street where Ringo Starr was born.  When illness forced retirement upon Bedford, he was advised by a doctor to find an interest to occupy his time.  Bedford began a quest to discover as much as he could about the history of the Beatles in Liverpool.  Almost a decade later, the result is Liddypool: Birthplace of The Beatles, a gorgeous coffee-table book published by Dalton Watson Fine Books and includes a foreword by drummer Pete Best.

“To understand The Beatles, you have to understand Liverpool,” Bedford writes, who is a tour guide and now, one of the most foremost experts on the Beatles early history.

Q:  David, what first sparked your interest in the Beatles?

DB:  Actually, the Beatles have always been a big part of my life.  I was a Beatles fan from a very young age, having grown up in the Dingle at the bottom of the road where Ringo Starr was born.  I even went to the same primary school that Ringo had attended some 25 years before. When I learned guitar about the age of 10 and really started developing my musical skills, I learned from the music book The Beatles Complete. After I married my wife Ali, we moved to the Penny Lane area.  Three children later they were enrolled into Dovedale school, where many years before John Lennon and George Harrison had attended. When Yoke Ono kindly donated £30,000 to the school for a project we were working on in 2000, I covered the story for the London Beatles Fan Club. This coincided with my doctor signing me off work with a condition I had been suffering from for two years: fibromyalgia. I was told that I would never work again. I was 35 with three young children. I was told that physically I would deteriorate quickly, but it was essential to keep my mind active. My doctor asked me what my interests were, and I said, “The Beatles.” Effectively he prescribed The Beatles as my therapy. I read the John Lennon Encyclopedia by Bill Harry, and began compiling a list of local places connected with The Beatles. However, when I read other Beatles books, there were discrepancies between the information given in the various books. I started devouring books for information, but my medical condition presented me with a problem: I have short-term memory problems, so I would read 25 pages and forget what I had read.  I started making notes to help me. I then realized I had lots of pieces of paper with notes, but they didn’t agree. I decided to visit and photograph these places and keep notes of the correct information which, at my wife’s suggestion, I decided to compile into a little book that I could write. That was nine years ago, and look what happened!

John Lennon (top center) at Dovedale School, 1951
(Photo courtesy David Bedford)

Q: In your foreword you write that most people who write books about the Beatles don’t understand or have never visited Liverpool.  Why is that important for readers of “Liddypool” to understand?

DB:  I was reading books written by authors from other cities or countries who, in some cases, had never been to Liverpool. I was reading their book and thinking: hang on mate, you are writing about my city and telling me anecdotes and historical facts, and getting it wrong. That really annoyed me and after a while it dawned on me: “To understand The Beatles, you have to understand Liverpool.” I wouldn’t dream of writing a book about growing up in New York because I have never experienced New York and would only be able to re-tell stories written by other people. You can only understand Liverpool by being immersed in the city – feeling the soul of the city and growing up in the city. Only then can you understand the idiosyncrasies of this unique place that was fundamental to shaping the Fab Four. If you have no understanding of what the city is all about, you will not be able to fully understand why only Liverpool could produce The Beatles.

Q:  How did you come up with the idea of just focusing the book on their years in Liverpool (1940-1964).

DB:  I literally have about 100 books on The Beatles and realized as I was constructing this book in my mind that to look up information I had to consult many different books.  There was not one book alone that acted as a reference for me. That’s when I decided that I should write about the places that I knew about – in and around Liverpool. I could tell the story of the formation of The Beatles, but I didn’t want to stray outside of the area because that was well documented. I wanted, as a Beatles fan, a book about Liverpool and The Beatles.  Much to my amazement there wasn’t one. I found a niche, and decided to concentrate on Liverpool.  I also wanted to finish at the pinnacle of their time in Liverpool on 10th July 1964, when 200,000 fans lined the streets to welcome home their favourite sons and give them a civic reception. It was an incredible moment in their life, and, although they probably hadn’t fully realized it, was one of the last times Liverpool saw them. It was in my mind a logical place to finish the book.

(Photo courtesy David Bedford)

Q:  Just in Liverpool alone, there were so many rumors, half-truths and speculation about the band.  Why do you think that is?

DB:  It’s the nature of the beast – people want to get as close as they can to history.  For this book, I decided to go direct to source wherever I could because there were so few books I could rely on. I interviewed The Quarrymen, Allan Williams, Pete Best, Julia Baird, Bill Harry, Alistair Taylor, Sam Leach and many more. I found myself reading the same stories over and over in the various books, right or wrong, as if there was one source which everyone used irrespective of accuracy.  But when I spoke to these eyewitnesses, they were sometimes giving me a separate story. That worried me because as well as the Chinese whispers theory where stories change every time they are told, memories fade over the years too. Plus, as with any phenomenon, some people who have a peripheral involvement suddenly see their opportunity and talk-up their part for their own ego, which then passes into folklore. I was determined to investigate everything I was told and corroborate it with as many sources as possible. Everyone in Liverpool it seems has their own Beatles’ story and are keen to tell you.  You have to be on your guard!

Q:  What was the biggest rumor you’ve corrected in the book?

DB:  Probably that Pete Best was dismissed because he was a rubbish drummer.  There are so many theories that can be dismissed quite easily such as his failure to change his haircut!  As no explanation was ever given to Pete, we have to gather the opinions of those who were there at the time, with no definitive answer available. I was not satisfied by any of those theories offered and eventually came up with a theory of my own. In the group’s history there were various musicians who were discarded along the way, not often by their own choice.  When necessary John, Paul and George took the decision to jettison a band member for, in their eyes, the good of the group. One particular occasion involved the night at The Casbah when Ken Brown couldn’t play with The Quarrymen because he was ill.  John, Paul and George played without him. When Mona Best paid the group their money, John wanted to know why the money was still split four ways when Ken hadn’t played that night.  John, supported by Paul and George, demanded Ken’s share of the money or they wouldn’t play at The Casbah again. Mona wouldn’t back down, so John, Paul and George walked out without Ken.  When I looked at the events between June 1962 and August 1962, it was clear that George Martin was not going to use Pete Best to drum on the records.  However, Martin didn’t see the need to replace Best. When you look at the reason how Ringo joined the group, it was clear that he was employed on a fixed fee per week for a probationary period, and would not enjoy the royalties accrued by any records at the time. The record revenue, at one penny per record, would therefore be split three ways – between John, Paul and George – with Ringo not receiving payment. This reminded me of the situation involving Ken Brown, and worked around that as a basis for my theory. The more I delved into the details surrounding Pete’s dismissal the more it seemed to fit.  As yet, no one has been able to dismiss my theory because no one is willing to talk about it.  To this day Pete still doesn’t know why he was dismissed.  Sadly, I don’t think he’ll ever know the real truth.

Q:   I was amazed to discover how many incarnations of the group there were.  Talk about how many times they broke up or morphed into something else, and how fate played a hand in all of this.

DB:  Like many fans, you start at the beginning of your interest knowing that The Beatles were John, Paul, George and Ringo, managed by Brian Epstein. You then find out that manager Allan Williams gave them away, and that they used to be called The Quarrymen. I started reading more about how John started The Quarrymen, and how there were different names being mentioned and I set out to find every musician who had ever played with the various groups, and the different name changes too. This, I assumed, was a simple task. It turned out to be one of the most challenging aspects of the book. The story of the “Fab Four” eventually became the “Fab 27” and includes one-off appearances by people like “Ron the Ted” and Rory Storm, to more important musicians like Ivan Vaughan and Stuart Sutcliffe who are integral to the story. I found that before they were called The Quarrymen, they were called the Blackjacks, which was also the same name of Ken Brown and Pete Best’s first group. The biggest surprise was to find out that when The Quarrymen were down to only John, Paul and George, they disbanded in January 1959 when George Harrison left to join The Les Stewart Quartet. When The Casbah was due to open in August 1959, The Les Stewart Quartet with George Harrison on guitar, were booked for opening night.  A few weeks before this event Les Stewart – or more precisely his girlfriend – decided that they shouldn’t do the gig! Ken Brown and George Harrison stormed out and promised Mona Best that they would get a band together to open the club.  George rang two old friends of his – John Lennon and Paul McCartney – and re-formed The Quarrymen to open the club as John, Paul, George and Ken.  What would have happened if the Les Stewart Quartet had opened the club?

Q:  Liddypool also pays tribute to Mona Best and The Casbah Club’s importance in the group’s development.  Talk about the club and why has it been overlooked through the years?

DB:  The biggest surprise to a Beatles fan growing up in Liverpool was to discover the “hidden gem” that is The Casbah. All I knew about was the legend of The Cavern where they made more than 300 appearances. But was it the “birthplace of The Beatles? I assumed it was.  I couldn’t believe my eyes when I discovered The Casbah in a book, The Beatles: the True Beginnings. Was it for real? I had to find out so I contacted Roag Best who gave me a guided tour. Here was the true birthplace of The Beatles.  It opened in August 1959 by Mona Best who was a true visionary. This club was like stepping back in time because it is still how it was when it closed in 1962. The ceiling is hand-painted by John Lennon and Paul McCartney, and with stars painted by John, Paul, George, Ken Brown, Pete Best and Stuart Sutcliffe.  Just walking into the place you can feel an incredible buzz. When the earliest Beatles books were written, Mona and Pete Best were not keen to discuss the success of the group that had dismissed Pete on the threshold of fame because, rightly so, they were bitter.  And so those books just didn’t mention The Casbah. This goes back to the reason for starting this book: not relying on other people’s books to re-tell the same old story. If you have a book that claims to tell the real story of The Beatles and doesn’t mention the importance of The Casbah, then you are not reading the real story.  This is where they first played outside of Germany as The Beatles, before they became famous, and before The Cavern. That is why there is a whole chapter just on The Casbah: it is a phenomenal place.

Q:  Give us a brief thumbnail of the Merseybeat scene in the late 1950s and who were some of the bigger groups at the time?

DB:  When the Lonnie Donegan-inspired skiffle craze hit Britain in 1956, skiffle groups like The Quarrymen sprang up across the nation. Skiffle didn’t last long but by then Elvis was shaking his hips and Buddy Holly played in Liverpool, who incidentally, were watched by John, Paul and George.  They were inspired by the real thing – rock ‘n’ roll. When The Quarrymen had morphed into The Silver Beatles, they were not particularly good.  If you wanted to see a top group, then you followed Rory Storm and the Hurricanes, Derry and the Seniors, The Searchers, The Swinging Blue Jeans, Gerry and the Pacemakers and Kingsize Taylor and the Dominoes among others. The Casbah played host to all of the top Merseybeat groups.  By 1962 there were an estimated 300 rock ‘n’ roll groups in Liverpool playing at clubs across the area. I have charted the clubs played by The Quarrymen or The Beatles, and there are over 100.  Alongside rock ‘n’ roll was a thriving jazz scene in the fifties, plus country and western and folk clubs, too.

Q:  Of the four Beatles, only Paul McCartney seemed to be sentimental about Liverpool and its colorful roots.  Why did John, George and Ringo not feel the same way?

DB:  When I interviewed John’s half-sister Julia Baird, it was clear that in the 1970s John was homesick and had asked for some mementos from home.  His visa problems in the US meant that any trip home was impossible for many years.  Who knows what would have happened if he hadn’t been killed?  I suspect he was going to return one day to Liverpool.  George kept contact with some of his family and supported some Liverpool projects, most notably the restoration of the Victorian Palm House in Sefton Park, to which he contributed a sizeable donation. Ringo has supported some projects in The Dingle, especially his old schools – St. Silas and Dingle Vale Secondary Modern.  But he had desired to live in America since childhood and has never really seemed to miss Liverpool. These efforts pale into insignificance when you see what Paul McCartney has done for his home town, both in public and private donations, most notably the Liverpool Institute for Performing Arts.  Paul still makes regular visits to his family here and has demonstrated publicly his love for Liverpool.  He is without a doubt the city’s favorite son.

Q:  Yoko Ono emerges from your book as one of Liverpool’s biggest contributors and has preserved a lot of the Beatles history.  What are some of the things she’s done over the years?

DB:  When you talk about Paul McCartney’s contribution to Liverpool, it has been covered quite well in the media. Yoko Ono has never enjoyed the same response from the media, and she hasn’t always courted that media interest, either. She has contributed to Dovedale School, both publicly and privately, and bought Mendips and then donated it to the National Trust.  She also supported Strawberry Field Children’s Home and agreed to the new name change for Liverpool John Lennon Airport.  She has supported and promoted Liverpool whenever she can. One of her most recent acts has been to set up the “Imagine Appeal” at Liverpool Children’s Hospital at Alder Hey.  She’s allowed them to use a drawing by John as the logo and supported the raising of funds for medical equipment for the children of Liverpool. She has not had to do anything for Liverpool but she carries on in John’s name, and that makes her a hero in my book.

Q:  You end Liddypool with the Beatles triumphant return to City Hall in July 1964.  It appears as if Liverpudlians understood from that point the Beatles belonged to the world.  Give us a historical perspective of how important the Beatles are to the legacy of Liverpool and how they are viewed there today?

DB:  The Beatles left The Cavern in August 1963 promising to return, but never did. Liverpool’s fans knew that they were leaving for good, and had to share them with the world. Simply, the Beatles put Liverpool on the map and cemented the city in the minds of people everywhere. If you say you are from Liverpool, then people in most places of the world will reply: “Yes, The Beatles.” With the decline of the port’s fortunes, leisure and tourism has become an integral part of the life of Liverpool in the 21st Century, and most of that is down to the legend of The Beatles.  Fans make their pilgrimage from all corners of the earth to visit Penny Lane, The Cavern, Strawberry Field and other equally famous places.  Liverpool is the birthplace of The Beatles but is also an 800-year-old town that has some of the finest architecture in Europe; a World Heritage Waterfront; some of the finest museums and art galleries in Britain and the Liverpool Football Club (still the most successful British football team). These are gems you discover when you get here but it is The Beatles that get you here in the first place.  Liverpool: there are places you’ll remember for the rest of your life.

Liddypool is published by Dalton Watson Fine Books and can be ordered by going to www.daltonwatson.com.

Marshall Terrill is the author of a dozen books and is a long time contributor to Daytrippin.com.

M. Clay Adams, the former owner of Clayco Films, produced many film segments for the Ed Sullivan Show during the 1960s. When Ed Sullivan’s production company collaborated with The Beatles to produce a documentary of their legendary 1965 performance at Shea Stadium, Clay Adams was the manager of production operations for the film.

At the time, Adams, who died last year at the age of 99, had been in the film business for over 25 years. He had a young teenage son, Michael, who was a huge Beatles fan. In February 1964, Michael was one of the lucky ones who attended the live February 9, 1964 Beatles debut on the Ed Sullivan Show as well as The Beatles dress rehearsal (the segment filmed for their third Ed Sullivan appearance which aired on February 23, 1964). He actually got to meet The Beatles after the dress rehearsal. He also attended both Beatles concerts at Shea Stadium in 1965 and 1966.

So after his dad, Clay, flew to London to work with George Martin and The Beatles on the over-dubs to the Shea Stadium film soundtrack, Michael was extremely anxious to hear about the trip. In the lost art of letter writing, Clay typed up a letter dated January 10, 1966 to his son, who was busy in school, and told him intimate details of working with George Martin and The Beatles in the recording studio. He also revealed his personal observations on each of the Fab Four.

For example, Clay Adams, describes his first impressions of Paul McCartney:

Paul was the first one to get there, right on the dot of 9:30. He came in with a short black fur coat and needing a shave. But he was full of fun and ready to get down to work right away. Actually what the boys and George Martin really felt was wrong with the Shea soundtrack was only that it was lacking in the “low end” and drums in some places. The bass guitar was not as loud as on their records. So while we were waiting for the other boys to arrive, we over-dubbed “I’m Down”, “Dizzy Miss Lizzy”, “Can’t Buy Me Love”, and “Baby’s in Black” with Paul only.

Readers can get a sense of what the Beatles daily lives were like from this historic letter. This excerpt almost seems like a scene out of A Hard Day’s Night as Adams writes:

Meanwhile nobody seemed to know where the rest of the boys were. Every time I’d ask what has happened to John, George and Ringo – George Martin would say he hadn’t the slightest idea except that Paul was living in the city nearby while the other boys had to come from out of town. Finally at about 10:30 in bounced the other three, all laughing and quite unaware that they had been keeping us in suspense.

What’s most fascinating about Adams’ letter is how he truly was a “fly on the wall” during a Beatles’ recording session.

All four of the boys were really great. They worked hard, did anything we asked them to and cooperated in every way. Also, they are such great “pros” and know their own arrangements so well that the recording session went much easier and faster than I ever anticipated. John was quite anxious to do “Ticket to Ride” better so we did that completely over and our track of “Help!” had a big drop-out in it which we had tried to fix up in New York – so we did that one all over. The rest were merely fixed here and there to fortify the Shea track. Paul loved my word “fortify” and whenever there was a lull he would say to me, “How are we doing Clay – did we fortify that one okay?”

Adams’ observations about the individual Beatles are quite insightful as well:

It was fun between recording sessions. Almost invariably Paul and John would immediately start tinkering around with some new musical ideas for new songs on their guitars. As soon as one would play a few notes, the other would pick up an accompaniment no matter how complex the arrangement. Meanwhile, George Harrison – who I called a frustrated drummer – would be trying to teach Ringo some new trick beat that he had thought up. They are all constantly fooling around with the other’s instruments. Ringo fooling with a guitar or the piano. George on the drums, etc. I thought Paul was the most musical though. When we had finished the over-dubbing I sat with him at the piano while he improvised. He has a great sense of harmony and phrasing. You should have heard his improvised chords fooling around with that song that’s my favorite from “Oliver” – I can’t think of the title.

The Beatles at Shea Stadium 50-minute documentary concert film was first aired on the BBC on May 1, 1966. The film was aired in the United States on ABC on January 10, 1967. However, since then, the film has never been commercially released to the public.
Michael Adams commented on the status of the film:

The film was a joint Sullivan Productions and NEMS venture. My Dad provided the film and sound crew and everything that came afterward until it was a finished product. When both parties had signed off on the completed film, two masters were made. Copies were then made and were presented to Sullivan Productions and NEMS for their prospective broadcasts. My Dad hung on to the masters and waited for the companies involved to follow up and ask for them.

In 1987, Paul McCartney phoned my Dad and requested a master for Apple. At the time, Paul said that they were interested in releasing it. They subsequently released a few songs on the Beatles Anthology. They [Apple] still have that master and who knows, maybe one day they will release it. In the meantime it keeps getting bootlegged. There’s boot copies of the US and the UK telecasts floating around out there (as well as that 2nd master).

With the release of McCartney’s Good Evening New York City CD/DVD today (November 17) which was filmed at the “new” Shea Stadium, now known as Citi Field, ABC will be broadcasting a one-hour special on Thanksgiving night, November 26, featuring McCartney concert excerpts as well as original footage from the Shea Stadium film.

To read the entire letter that Clay Adams wrote to his son about his experience working with the Beatles, visit http://www.beatles-history.net/beatles-shea-stadium.html

Our thanks to Michael Adams for sharing such a fascinating piece of Beatles history.

by Shelley Germeaux

ShouldaBeenThereBookRecently I met (via email) Jude Southerland Kessler, author of “John Lennon: Shoulda Been There”, a historical bio-novel covering the period 1940-1961, the first twenty-one years of John Lennon’s life. Published in 2008, the book is a resounding 788 pages before its extensive bibliography, and includes an interview CD with the Beatles first manager Allan Williams. The foreword is written by John’s Liverpool mate, Bill Harry. Susan Ryan did a great review of it for Daytrippin’ last year; this article is not a review but a short interview with the author as well as my initial overview.

The intriguing aspect of this book is the attention to the facts of John’s life down to minute details, as Jude creates scenes and conversational script around actual events that have been documented. The only new material that is not included are the newer revelations from Julia Baird’s recent book, “Imagine This” which was released around the same time Jude’s book was. Jude also missed out on an actual trip inside Mendips, which was opened to the public after Jude concluded her research. But those things do not detract from the story since Jude did have access to Baird’s earlier work.

Jude has researched John’s life for twenty years, making seven trips to Liverpool to interview many people associated with John, people you have read about but probably never thought to try and track them down, such as the life model Jane Furlong from the Art Institute, and Rod Murray, John’s old roommate. She inspected the actual entries about John at Quarry Bank School, and wrote to the people who owned John’s Liverpool home, Mendips (before it was opened to the public.)

Even if you are not into novels per se, this book is worth your time if you are a Lennon fan who would like to be able to picture the events in your mind and imagine how they may have happened. You’ll need to overlook the lack of offensive language that littered John’s vocabulary, as Jude carefully uses a more PG style. For example, the F word is “fugging”. But you get the picture, and the book becomes accessible to all age groups; also absent are early sexual experiences or any mention of his first real girlfriend, Barbara Baker. Jude has done an excellent job of writing the conversations in true Liverpudlian scouse; pretty amazing for an American girl. Down to the local slang at that time, the names of meals, tea and holidays, it’s Liverpool all the way.

We’ve heard it all before in so many books, with slight variations and corrections through the years as more facts come to light.  What we haven’t seen in print are possible conversations and dramatic scenes that must have taken place…the judgments and hostilities that were going on in the Stanley family that caused Mimi to be so horrified at John’s living conditions at Julia’s that she took matters into her own hands to extricate him; the close bond that grew between Uncle George Smith and John, explaining John’s grief when he died; the shenanigans at Quarry Bank School that exasperated the headmaster and all the teachers at the school, resulting in his expulsion. In each case you are living through the events as they occur. And that is how John’s traumatic childhood begins to unfold for the reader in an emotional context.

Even the title begins to make more sense. Thinking that it meant that WE all “shoulda been there” because it was such an amazing time, it actually means THEY all “shoulda been there” for John when he was little, but weren’t.

Here is the interview that I conducted with Jude:

Shelley: Is your name really Jude? I have to ask because of the obvious connection to the song “Hey Jude”.

Jude: I was born Judith Ann Southerland. My mother is Irish (O’Neal) and Jude is the Irish nickname for Judith. Once I got to gradeschool, it became “Judy” no matter how hard I tried to tell everyone. (My husband’s name is Rande…silent “e” and everyone called him Randy…he hated it as much as I hated Judy.) When he and I met in 1977, we agreed to call each other by our correct names, and over the years (33 years of marriage and four years dating), it has stuck.

Shelley: What are the upcoming editions and dates that you plan to publish?
Jude: There will be four more books in the series…if I survive the pressure of deadlines!
*Shivering Inside (10 Dec. 1961-The Ed Sullivan Show) Will be out on John’s birthday in 2010
*She Loves You (Ed Sullivan Show to meeting Yoko)
*Shoulda Known Better (Meeting Yoko through the Lost Weekend)
*Shine On (John’s return to New York through 8 Dec. 1980)

SG: Jude, what prompted you to do this project, and why did you start researching John 20 years ago?

JK: I had been a John Lennon fan (and consequently, a Beatles fan…in that order) since I was nine years old. Like so many other girls (and guys) who grew up in the 60’s, I had the Beatle bracelet, pennant, wallet, card collection, pictures, 45’s and albums. I was a dyed in the wool FAN.

And I was always a writer. In 1965,  published a juvenile book of poetry called Memories from Gradeschool Years and was named my junior high school’s poet laureate (LOL!!). I wrote a novel in elementary school and did my own illustrations (both dreadful!). Like many prepubescent girls, I worshipped Louisa May Alcott! And in 1975, I received my Master’s in English and began teaching creative writing at Troy State University. The point of all this info? To say that I wanted to write a novel from a very early ago…I realized that writing a novel was what I was here to do.

In 1986, when I began to earnestly consider beginning that long-delayed book, I asked myself, “What do I know well enough to write about authoritatively? What is my area of expertise?” The only thing I really knew well (so I thought) was John Lennon.

Of course, almost immediately (as I began my research) I discovered that I knew nothing about him at all. So I began purchasing books on John and The Beatles: ten books, one hundred books, two hundred, three hundred….I collected periodicals, taped interviews, and later interview DVD’s and CD’s…I squirreled away anything and everything that I could get my hands on about John. I created an entire Lennon/Beatles room in my home.

But there was another, more important motivation for my focus on John Lennon as the subject of my novel(s). My “mission” in life, I believe, has always been to care for neglected or abused children. Wherever my husband and I have lived, there has always been a child living close to us who became part of our family and ended up virtually moving with us and our son, Cliff, until we moved away. John was one of those children. He has lived with me since December of 1963. I wanted to tell the story of that little boy who had to prove that he was worthy, valuable, and “bigger than Elvis” because his heart overflowed with a “sadness that [went] too  deep for words.” I wanted to tell readers (whether they were Beatles fans or not) that what parents do makes a huge difference in the life of a child.

SG: What is the most profound thing that you have learned about John, that really surprised you?
JK: I honestly don’t think I had any real revelations about John… not because I’m smart or clever, but because John was dead honest. He was exactly the person you saw and listened to and observed. He was a straight shooter…no sham, no gloss, no apologies.

He was – once I started researching him – exactly the person I had always suspected him to be. I had long believed that the songs were all about John’s tortured love for Julia, and the more I discovered about him, the more obvious that premise became. From the plea “not to wear red tonight” in “Yes It Is,” (red was Julia’s favorite color) to the admission: “I’m a loser, and I’m not what I appear to be,” John always, always sang of his love for Julia and his loss. She was the center point of every song. (See “I’ll Cry Instead” or “In My Life” or “You’ve Really Got a Hold on Me.”)

I had also always believed that inside John’s gruff exterior was a soft, loving, giving man. And every single one of my interviews in Liverpool with his friends and associates bore that concept out. Liverpudlians told me so many stories of the kind and thoughtful things he did for them. (They’re all in the book! You’ll love them…amazing examples of John’s heart.)

I had always believed John to be witty, pithy, cutting edge…and he was. I believed him to be easily hurt. He was. I believed him to be lost…constantly searching for “the next big thing” to make him happy. He was.

I wish I had discovered that John was happier than I had imagined, but I didn’t. There were moments of smiles, of course…moments of fleeting joy. But the sadness was always there, just beneath the surface. John had a “chip on his shoulder that [was]bigger than his feet.”  And he sincerely believed that “half of what [he said] was meaningless.” He was never really happy here. I believe he’s happy now.

SG: Can you name some of your favorite interviews in this process?
JK: Cue the theme from “Love Story” (“Where Do I Begin…”)…Serially, I had no bad interviews. All were interesting, exciting, amazing. How did a girl from a small town in north Louisiana get to walk with such giants? I’ll never know. I only know I’ve been blessed. My life has been a wonder and continues to be, thanks to wonderful Beatles friends and readers, and the best husband on earth.

But I digress…back to interviews:

Meeting Allan Williams, the Beatles first manager, was an unruly, joyous, raucous experience. My husband and I spent four unforgettable evenings with Allan and his late friend, Beryl Adams (who worked for Brian Epstein at NEMS and was once married to Bob Wooler). The stories and fun we all shared will keep me smiling for the rest of my life. Allan gave me three great interviews (one of which is on the CD in the revised copy of Shoulda Been There). He also got into a fist-fight over me, which was the happiest night of my life and another long story for another day.

The late Bob Wooler, DJ at the Cavern Club, was a man beloved by every single person in Liverpool. He was eloquent, informed, and easy to talk to. The stories he shared (with his bent toward alliteration and purple prose) were so vivid and alive. I loved visiting with him. (But he would NOT tell me the exact words that he said to John at Paul’s 21rst birthday party. He said he was taking that statement to his grave.)

My favorite interview of all time was June Furlong, the life model at Liverpool College of Art. She was John’s idol when he was in school. June was a very famous and exquisite model. All the great artists of Europe (Bacon, Foy, Auerbach) had painted June in the late 1950’s and early 1960’s. So, John used to shadow June to discover what she did to become so famous and sought-after. He questioned her about what it took to get to the top. During the process of interviewing June, we became fast friends. We still write each other every month and stay in close contact. She means the world to me.

I also loved meeting Rod Murray, Helen Anderson, Joe Flannery, Colin Fallows (Liverpool College of Art), Dave Bennion from QuarryBank (now Calderstones CC) in Woolton, Tony Jackson, John’s Uncle Charlie, Louise Harrison, Ruth McCartney, George Jardine (John’s art college professor), Billy May, and many, many others. Honestly, I still have to pinch myself to believe I actually sat in The Grapes or Ye Cracke and talked to these larger than life people. Strange days indeed.

SG: Were you able to take the tour through Mendips, and what did you think of that?
JK: No. sigh…..I was in Liverpool between 1993 and 2000…and Mendips was not open to the public at that time. I wrote to the owner of Mendips at that time and asked if I could please come in and see the house, and I explained exactly why I wanted to do so. A week or so later, I receive a very courteous reply telling me that the home was not open to the public and that only the friends of the owner were admitted to the home.

Well…..pathetic person that I am (seeing Mendips meant so much to me), I wrote back to the owner and said, “I could be your friend! I’m a nice person.” I sent him/her photos of me, newspaper clippings, and any info that might introduce myself to this stranger in Liverpool. I know, sad. But I so wanted to walk inside that house.

Long story short, he/she wrote back to me saying that he/she would NOT admit me to the home, but that instead would give me specific details about the home just as it had looked when he/she purchased the home from Mimi Smith. The letter described the fireplaces, cabinets in the kitchen, upstairs baths and bedrooms, etc., and it gave me all the detail that I needed to paint an accurate picture of the house that John called home.

When I published Shoulda Been There, I felt that it would be selfish for me to hoard that letter to myself, so it is included in the appendix for all to read. By the way, it was handwritten on John Lennon’s stationery. You can check the printed phone number. It is the original.

One note that I’d like to add: I love hearing from readers, and in the past two years, I’ve tried to answer every e-mail in a reasonable amount of time. But Shivering Inside has to be in the publisher’s hands by 1 June in order to make the publication deadlines, so I’m running out of time. I’m receiving between 40-80 e-mails a day. Please understand that I may not be able to answer every question. It’s not that I don’t want to answer, it’s that I can’t finish the next book if I do. Thank you so much for understanding! I’m trying to dog paddle as fast as I can.

************
I want to thank Jude for her wonderfully open answers to my questions, And for her dedication to the truth about John’s history. Jude’s efforts have taken her deep into the heart of Liverpool and John Lennon’s story in a way that brings it all alive for the reader. No doubt, readers will feel not only like they “shoulda been there”, but that they were.

To purchase the book, you can check out Amazon, and  Jude’s website is:
http://www.ontherockbooks.com/

Shelley Germeaux is the West Coast correspondent for Daytrippin’ and also an Independent Publishing Consultant for Heritage Makers
Visit her website at:

http://www.shelleys-memory-books.com

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